Flat earth: Are Australia to South America flights real?

Air New Zealand now flies direct to Buenos Aires from Auckland. The flight time is approximately 12 hours. They operate three return services a week with their Boeing 777-200 airplanes all year around.

Many believers in the flat earth claim such flights are impossible and not real. This is because most flat earthers accept a map that puts Australia and South America on opposite sides of their flat earth making them so far apart that you would have to travel at more than twice the speed of sound to make the journey in the twelve hours that these flights actually take to transport passengers from Auckland, New Zealand to Buenos Aires, Argentina.

So just to find out for myself if these flights are real or not I booked a return ticket to Buenos Aires in December 2017.

I left Auckland on the evening of December 11, 2017 and did arrive in Buenos Aires approximately 12 hours later, along with a full plane load of other people. I also took the return flight from Buenos Aires to Auckland on December 24, 2017 and that similarly took about 12 hours and I most certainly arrived in Auckland.

To try and understand exactly where the plane was flying I took my iPhone with a data logger logging all the sensor information it could get for the flight. Unfortunately on the flight to Buenos Aires, perhaps to the design of the airplane, the iPhone could not pick up any GPS signal but on the return flight it was a different plane and I was able to get GPS coordinates for at least part of the flight. But the other senses like direction, altitude, speed, etc, were working an logging data on both flights.

I am including the raw datalogs for both flights below and please analyze them yourself and let me know what you find in the comments:

AUK-BA_2017-12-11_21-23-39_+1300

BA_AUK_2017-12-24_23-48-23_-0300

Please see the image below for the GPS data I was able to collect on the flight from Buenos Aires to New Zealand. It is incomplete but these are actual GPS coordinates recorded and logged by my iPhone on the flight. So it appears they have taken the long route. As we are lead to believe that if they would have flown down towards the South Pole, because the earth is a globe, it would be shorter. But instead of doing this they have flown up, towards the equator, then back down again towards New Zealand. So the route according to the GPS coordinates does appear a bit different to the route they show on their flight information system.

So the actual route appears to be quite dramatically different from the route they show us on the flight information screen:

So the conclusion is the flights in the Southern Hemisphere like the one I personally went on from Auckland to Buenos Aires do exist and are real and do take approximately 12 hours which would be impossible on the flat earth map unless the planes were flying at more than twice the speed of sound. Which I think we can be quite sure they are not. And we have verified they do fly on more-or-less the same route as they are claimed to fly on. So this information would appear to cast rather serious doubts on the validity of the accepted flat earth map.

25 Replies to “Flat earth: Are Australia to South America flights real?”

  1. DG

    Hey there, I read through your post here and found the flight pattern to be very intriguing. After a little searching, I found that the most reasonable explanation for the alteration in advertised versus actual flight path would be the local jet stream patterns at the time of your flight. If you go to this link below, you’ll find that the flight path recorded by your GPS tracker falls in line with the average jet stream pattern that would allow for minimal fuel burn. Good post!

    https://www.netweather.tv/charts-and-data/global-jetstream#2018/07/20/1800Z/jetstream/surface/level/overlay=jetstream/orthographic=-129.84,-49.27,712

  2. Marcelo A Galvan

    Pt br, Friend and if you use the UN Azimuth Map template and trace the same route? Perhaps it makes more sense, if the planes fly in the UN azimuth map model (for reference only), the trajectory would be more explained by the flat navigation and the route in question has an acceleration of 300 km hour to more site the speed of the airplane in some parts saving fuel and time. Do this research and share, thank you!

    • madhudvisa

      Yes. Of course that is the main point. It would be impossible to fly this route in the 10 hours or so that it actually takes if the earth was actually as it is depicted on the Azimuth map. Look at that map yourself. That map puts Australia and South America on opposite sides. So shortest distance would be to fly over the North Pole… So it is absolutely not possible to fly from New Zealand to Argentina in 10 hours on the AE map…

    • madhudvisa

      I don’t have a personal jet unfortunately, but I am sure someone who had a personal jet could fly on the same route that Air New Zealand does.

  3. Sanyiago

    you say they are dramatically different, but you didn’t mention the fact that the second map IS a FLAT map. if you were to modify it too fit the globe, the difference wouldn’t be so great. it would probably still be different, but not so much.
    otherwise, good job. I enjoyed the read.

  4. Flying Kiwi

    Reading through your article was very interesting, as I live in New Zealand, done many overseas flights commercially, but also have some understanding through flight training as a pilot.
    FEers will go on about why not fly directly over the South Pole, which in reality would only be “logical” if flying directly from a Western Australian city (Perth), to a South American city. Even Sydney to any Western South American city say in Chile or Peru if in a perfect straight line (as on a map) would barely touch the edge of the Antarctic continent, even from Africa to Eastern Australia goes no where near the Antarctic land mass. The only other “direct” flight that would pass over the South Pole would be from Africa to New Zealand, but as there are only 4.5 million here (in NZ), those direct flights don’t exist SIMPLY because they would run at a loss to the airlines. So they collect and drop passengers at either Australia, or S.A if going the other way. Madhudvisa mentioned air streams, YES! (please FEers read and take this info into high consideration…. if possible for you?), for anyone interested, have a look at this interactive map (below). Now… please all think logically, would you fly the plane against the wind, therefore using more fuel and taking longer, or divert and fly with the direction of the stream? I hear read this blab by FEers is no diff to crashing in the sea, compared to Antarctic, um yes there is… Do some research into shipping, sure both most likely would disastrous, but rescue is more probable anywhere oceanic, compared to mid Antarctic which is a MASSIVE continent. I would rather take odds of ditching in the Southern ocean and been in a lifeboat for a few days.

    https://earth.nullschool.net/?fbclid=IwAR3eAml0C_qWwNElX13GFl1MyzdLbGDFKR5jYIP7mLqdr5u-P0WeuKb7OfM#current/wind/surface/level/orthographic=55.68,276.50,284

  5. no

    I have flown too Europe to australia quite a lot, and can tel you went no where near the arctic as would be the fastest route on a airplaine. I dont really think there are many people that are acutally flat earthers just people that like to be contary, and those who like the mental challenge of trying to make it fit the observed facts, PS i remember watching live sporting events in the northern hemishpere live at the same local time as where i live in the southern hemisphere

    • madhudvisa

      The problem is the time it takes, on flat earth map it is very, very far, one side of the flat earth to the other, would take 24 hours or so, but flight only actually takes 8 hours…

  6. Peter Prevos

    The difference in the routes is easily explained because both maps use a different projection method. Both curves are a straight line on a 3-dimensional globe.

    • metaforze

      Exactly this!

      They are precisely the same routes, only the one on the in-flight system is projected on the Mercator projection, making it look like a detour through the South! This is not the case, both your GPS data and the in-flight system are almost a straight line from NZ to Argentina.

      • Flat Earth Facts

        Yes. My practical experience in flying from Australia to Argentina in 10 hours in more-or-less a straight line is certainly in accordance with what we would expect on a globe earth, and is totally impossible on the flat earth map…

  7. H g dave

    If it was flat I could see Mount Everest from Anywhere on Earth based on its height and altitude from sea level and if Sun was moving while earth stationary as flat theorists suggest then Moon will not have phases of light

    • Dan

      H g Dave – you know when you watch the weather report and there’s that bit that tells you what ‘visibillity’ is like for the day? That’s because of atomspherics, the same reason you cant see everest.

    • Bob

      No you couldnt. Nor am i a flat earther. But i have seen ships using scopes that are 20+ miles out at sea and that is impossible on a globe model.

  8. Soul

    NOT A FE BUT LOOKING FOR ANSWERS:

    It’s so sad to see FE not celebrating at this, and it’s proof that unfortunately most of the FE community doesn’t understand much about math. Anyway to any careful observer: This is indeed one of the best proof of a flat earth.

    If you take a “globe map” and measure the distance between Buenos Aires and Auckland, then take the same globe and measure the distance between London and New York, and then you proceed to also take the average flight time for direct flights on these trajectories (7.5 hours in air), then you also consider the jet streams (that anyway can be “fully used” only at times, you can check this watching at the world record for civilian London – New York flights which has been scheduled on purpose by the British Airlines on a specific date to fully use the jet streams of that time bringing the flight duration down to 5 hours) and the average transoceanic flights speed (between 0.65 and 0.85 mach), you can conclude that on a globe a direct flight from Buenos Aires to Auckland should take much more (from 2 to 3 hours more depending on the airplane real speed and time of the year), while the flight time on a flat plane would correctly match what you have observed.

    This raises some questions, at least for me, if anyone would be willing/able to elaborate more on this, I would be very happy to listen to any explanation about it, because honestly I may be missing something, but this definitely scores in favor of the flat earth model.

    • Flat Earth Facts

      Hi Soul

      The Southern Hemisphere flights are real and the flight times are consistent with a globe earth and impossible on the map given to us by the flat earth people. So that proves at least the flat earth map is completely wrong.

  9. Ted NZ

    What no Flat Earth believer will approach or debate, is the problem that their “map” is based on an exponential measurement system.
    Their kilometre is a millimetre long at their “north pole” and exponentially becomes about 5 kilomtres long their outside “Antarctica rim”.

    Their “map” shows New Zealand to be 4 or 5 times longer than what it is. But, as I’ve driven it numerous times, The South Island is abput 1100 km long and I’ve driven it in 13 hours.
    Just as I’ve driven 1100 km up the UK, in same time frame.

    Secondly in regard to there “but no flights go across Antarctica” globe map of the South Pole. Maybe they could get on Google and research The Rhumb lines?
    Then they’ll reaslise that that is one reason very few flights go over the South Pole, but the other is safety, simply look at the immense distances of empty ocean and no civilisation when viewing the South Pole compared to the North.
    No airline company wants one of their flights on trouble down there, virtually nil chance of survival.

    Flat Earth followers need to look at what they propose as the “reality” with logic, practicality and the application of basic math

    • Flat Earth Facts

      Hi Ted

      Yes. You are correct of course. This is not really a site for globe earthers to fight with flat earthers. We are trying for something different. We are trying to find out what is the truth actually about the structure of the solar system, etc.

      The “Flat Earth Map,” it is not a flat earth map actually and you are correct, Southern Hemisphere, it is not drawn to scale as far as the sizes of the land masses. It was not made as a flat earth map, and it was never intended to be an accurate depiction of the world as it is. It is for navigation.

      The beauty of the “flat earth map” is you can draw lines on it from where you are to where you want to go and measure the compass direction and head in that direction and you will get there. So if you want to go from Los Angeles to Auckland, on the flat earth map you can just plot your course and measure the angle and head in that direction and you will arrive in Auckland. That is what the “Flat Earth Map” is really for, a navigational aid. It is a depiction of a globe, like all other flat maps, it is a projection of a globe on a flat piece of paper. So this particular projection, yes, it distorts the sizes of New Zealand, etc, but it keeps the directions accurate for navigation.

  10. Ted NZ

    Still you have diverted fron the points i have raised.
    Regardless of the 2D projection that a flat earth map uses, if to scale or not, the flat earth map still uses an exponential measurement system..!
    We know the time frames to fly between 2 points across the southern hemisphere, going by any flat eath map that same distance would take a tenth the time (or less) in their “northern” hemisphere.

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