Airplane pilots don’t adjust course for the curve

If the Earth were truly a sphere 25,000 miles in circumference, airplane pilots would have to constantly correct their altitudes downwards so as to not fly straight off into outer space.

This is a mistake, it is not a proof the earth is flat. Airline pilots have an altimeter which they use to keep the plane at a fixed altitude [distance from the earth] and also they aim at the horizon. So if the earth is a globe and you keep your airplane at a fixed distance from the earth then automatically you are correcting your course to remain at a fixed distance from the earth, in other words you are going around the curve of the earth. Also by aiming at the horizon that will cause you to constantly follow the curve of the earth.

So airline pilots already have two perfectly good systems in place that ensure they will follow the curve of the earth if it is a globe and these systems will work equally well to enable them to stay a fixed distance from a flat plane if the earth is flat.

The conclusion is airline pilots do adjust for the curve, if it exists, so this does not prove or disprove the flat earth or the globe earth.

 

85 Replies to “Airplane pilots don’t adjust course for the curve”

  1. Kevin McMillen

    I wrote this to Dubay about his 2777ft drop per minute claim.

    The problem is that you’re not doing the correct math equation.You’re taking the drop in 500 miles, 166,667ft and dividing by 60 minutes, or total flight time, to get the correct but ridiculous number of 2,777ft per minute drop.

    To simplify, use 600 miles per hour, divide by 60 minutes means you’re flying 10 miles per minute, 10x10x8/12=67ft roughly. So, which is it? Is the plane dropping 2,777ft per minute or 67ft per minute? Neither.

    If the plane is flying 10 miles per minute that means it’s going 1 mile in 6 seconds. Is an 8 inch drop in 6 seconds the correct answer? That’s really not much of a drop but that’s still not correct.

    A 747 is about 250ft in length. 250ft/5280=.0473 of a mile. The plane is .0473 of a mile long.

    .0473x.0473×8=.017 of an inch. In the planes length the earth drops .017 of an inch. That’s just a little over 1/64th of an inch.

    Theoretically an airplane could maintain a flight altitude just a little over 1/64th of an inch out of level and circumnavigate the entire globe.

    I say theoretically because there are so many forces involved the plane’s computer or the pilot are always making corrections.

    Hopefully facts will prevail in this silly flat earth craze!

    Kevin McMillen

    • madhudvisa

      Hi Keven

      Yes. This whole idea that if the earth was a globe planes would fly off into space because they are not putting their nose down is ridiculous.

      In the olden days the pilot was always aiming at the horizon, that would automatically correct for the globe, and he was keeping at a fixed height above the earth with his altimeter. So he was constantly correcting for the globe by constantly aiming at the horizon and keeping the plane at a constant height above the ground. So now the computers are doing the same thing. Constantly correcting.

      So it is just a crazy idea. There’s no need to do the maths actually. Because either of these things would automatically correct for the globe. If you stay at a constant height above the surface of the earth then no matter what shape the earth is you will follow that shape. And if you point at the horizon also that will keep you following the contour of the earth below you. No matter what shape it is…

      • Lee

        WOW. Both of you are in dire need of schooling. Please show us the scientific proof of curvature. You can’t because there is none. This is out to universities all over.
        A CHALLENGE TO PROFESSORS, SCIENTISTS, PHYSICIST’S and generally delusional globe believers…
        Photograph and photoshop are 2 different things.
        The 1st is real, the 2nd is Computer generated.
        NASA utilizes 100% CGI for ALL of their published images as do ALL other space agencies so please don’t waste time with using this as proof or ANY other military or deceptively claimed to be private agency as follows…
        China National Space Administration (CNSA)
        European Space Agency (ESA)
        Russian Federal Space Agency (Roscosmos)
        Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO)
        Japan Aerospace Exploration Agency (JAXA)
        German Aerospace Center (DLR)
        Italian Space Agency (ASI)
        National Centre for Space Studies (France)
        Canadian Space Agency
        SpaceX.
        Further, Images taken with a fisheye lens ARE NOT PROOF OF ANYTHING AND WON’T BE CONSIDERED.
        I will gladly debate AFTER scientific proof of a spinning ball earth. My qualifications, (or lack thereof)…
        I’ve worked briefly as a college professor and have over 2 years of research on the topic of Cosmology. I work as an advanced robotic systems programmer/analyst with a background in computer science with emphasis on automotive assembly line controls engineering and throughput enhancement. I’ve installed entire assembly lines for G.M., Ford, Diamler-Chrysler, NIssan, Toyota, and Auto-Alliance/Mazda and have worked under employ of G.M Cadillac and Diamler as Systems Analyst
        1st, I require prior to debate 100% scientific proof of the following…
        1. Curvature of the earth at 8 inches per mile SQUARED as specified in the Pythagoras Theorem, (To date has NEVER been done.)
        2. Proof of the earths motion as proven to be false in the advanced Michelson-Morley experiment.
        3. (optional) Proof of Einsteins theory of E=Mc2 which was originally designed to prove the Heliocentric model.
        If you truly believe in your education and can backup your cosmology/physics and astronomy I’m Here for you to completely humiliate! Just the think of the fun you’ll have making me look like a total IMBECILE??, AND HOW COOL YOU’LL LOOK TO YOUR PEERS????
        https://www.britannica.com/science/Michelson-Morley-experiment

        • Rob Ross

          Lee, maybe you can prove through scientific facts how the earth is flat?
          As far as an answer to your question, the reason we know the earth is round is:
          At a very basic level, we can see the Earth’s curvature through satellites that have been launched into space. Additionally, through the use of high-powered telescopes, it is possible to examine planets both in our solar system and beyond, and all of them are spherical in shape.

          There is a very deep, fundamental reason why the Earth is round: the force of gravity depends upon the distance between two interacting objects, and the only three-dimensional object you can make with a single distance is a sphere. We can measure the behavior of gravity in the laboratory with a variety of highly sensitive experiments. Each of these experiments shows that the force of gravity depends only on the mass of the two objects and the distance between them. If, on the other hand, you wanted to form a flattened object using gravity alone, the force of gravity would have to depend upon two, perpendicular distances in two perpendicular directions.

          • Flat Earth Facts

            Hi Rob

            Yes. You have given two of the basic ‘proofs’ that the earth is a globe.

            • Photos from space
            • As above so below

            That is good if you believe in the photos from space. I must note that from a couple of hundred miles up [low earth orbit satellites, space station, etc, you can not see the curve of the earth.] If you take a ball and scale it to the 8,000 mile diameter of the earth and come up a couple of hundred miles you will see that is not sufficient to tell if the earth is flat or a globe. But you could see the whole globe from satellites in geosynchronous orbit, if you believe there are satellites in geosynchronous orbit.

            And your other point, because the moon is a globe, the sun is a globe, Mars is a globe, etc, then Earth must be a globe also. That is not proof, it is a deduction. Still possible that Earth may be different from the globes we see above our heads.

            As far as your claim that there are scientific experiments demonstrating gravity, the attraction between two objects. I have never heard of any such successful experiment. The scientific opinion is that no such experiment is possible on earth because any small gravitational pull that may be generated by your ‘heavy objects’ will be completely overwhelmed by the huge gravitational pull of the earth we stand on. So there is no experiment showing the working of gravity possible on the earth, at least not as far as I am aware.

          • Mark D

            Hey Rob. You say we can’t prove earth is flat. Yet the BEDFORD EXPERIMENT anyone can do go to Salt flats. Ocean lake where ever a large flat surface is. Look across Here in So Cal Huntington Beach Pier I can look towards Catalina island. Look at Harbor the city there. It’s 21 miles away at 5ft above water it’s a 296’ft drop behind curvature. You people say we never can prove it yet it has. Utah lake 21 miles laser across water. Sorry light refraction cannot give this much gain. It’s amazing you keep saying FE is crazy when numerous people have proven this experiment over and over. Where is the Round earth proof? NASA fake pictures. What proof have LAND SURVEYORS came out and said we don’t take the curvature into consideration. We have NASA DOCUMENTS SR71 flight dynamics for a external payload page 8 I believe or 10. So many documents that mention a FLAT EARTH NON ROTATING. so explain why they would use such terminology. Please Einstein. Ohh wait. Einstein tried to prove the rotation of the earth and couldn’t. To this day no one has been able to prove any rotation of the earth. The Air Force has tried. So if your done bad mouthing everyone. Show us any proof of a globe that we can go out a test. Cause I bought a telescope and looked for myself it’s the inly way people will believe.

        • TJ

          Brilliant. The theory of relativity was thrown at the Michelson-Morley Experiment because they didn’t detect the aether. But they did in the Michelson-Gale, The Sagnac, and Airy’s Failure Experiments. No other experiments have been done since to calculate the velocity at which the Earth spins because science is funded by the government? I’m sure many indoctrinated-driven people would like to debate Lee. But it’s impossible to produce proof of a curvature, that Earth moves, gravity (density and buoyancy are a natural law) or ‘E=mc2’ which was not discovered by Einstein and has since been proven wrong. Lee won’t be debated. I urge everyone reading this to grasp on to the concept that all the oceans on Earth wrap around a ball 25,000 miles in circumference with a gravitational pull from a molten magnetic core.
          Science has proven that a magnet heated into liquid form has no magnetic properties. Now try and rationalize that the level of water bends which it does not and is a law violation in Fluid Dynamics.
          Here is a link explaining the facts.
          https://waterslevel.com/

        • Tim Andrews

          WOW. You are in dire need of schooling. Please show us the scientific proof of flatness. You can’t because there is none. This is out to flat earthers all over.
          A CHALLENGE TO CONSPIRACY THEORISTS, PEOPLE WHO DO “RESEARCH” BY WATCHING CRACKPOT YOUTUBE VIDEOS and generally delusional flat Earth believers…

          Photograph and photoshop are 2 different things.
          The 1st is real, the 2nd is Computer generated.

          Show us the photograph, not cgi, of the flat Earth with both Africa and North America visible in the same *photograph*. Flat earthers have lots of paintings and CGI, but where are the photographs?

          There are lots of photographs of the round earth taken from space, with unproven accusations that they are CGI, but where are the flat Earth photos? Why are they all just obvious illustrations?

          • Flat Earth Facts

            There is a serious shortage of believable full globe images from space. There is no live feed. Which certainly there would be if they have all these things in space with a full view of the globe earth from so many perspectives.

            Such realtime images of the globe would not just be nice to see, but would be tremendously helpful in many scientific fields. But we don’t have them at all.

            And realistically most of the photos of earth from space are admittedly not. But are compositions made in Photoshop.

            So there really is a very serious lack of photographic evidence of the globe earth from space.

            We certainly have got very detailed satellite imagery of most of the surface of the earth from low-earth satellites. But virtually nothing in the realm of high resolution actual imagery of the globe spinning in space.

            There is some weather satellite imagery, but there is a very good chance it is computer generated based on all the data they have from their low-earth sattelites.

            So I do not find much convincing evidence at all for our ability to take photos of the earth from space. Because we only have a handful of photos of earth from space.

            So this is really a very valid argument from the flat earth people.

          • Tim Andrews

            “There is a serious shortage of believable full globe images from space”

            There appear to be absolutely no believable full flat Earth photos.

            While you can argue whether many of the photos of the round Earth were made with CGI or otherwise faked, there are no photos of the full flat Earth to make that argument about.

            If the Earth is really flat, why can’t we see a photo of it? We can see all kinds of photos of the round Earth that people argue about. Where are the flat Earth photos?

          • Flat Earth Facts

            Tim. You have a problem thinking logically. The reason we don’t have believable globe photos is because they are unable to take the globe photos from a sufficient distance away from the earth to provide them for us.

            If they could take believable globe earth photos we would have millions of them, we would have super high-definition views of the globe from every angle, constant imagery.

            So the point is the imagery is missing. So we don’t have the globe imagery. So how would we have the flat imagery? That is the whole point. We don’t have the imagery. So we don’t know if it is a globe or what it is.

            That is the point. So there is no point saying we don’t have flat imagery. The point is we don’t have believable globe imagery. If you can present the conclusive believable globe imagery, then the problem is solved.

            All you have to do is go up high enough and look down. But it does not seem we are able to do that?

            No man has ever left low-earth orbit, except for the fake Apollo missions, which also did not leave low-earth orbit.

            And we don’t know how to send men out of low-earth orbit yet either…

            So this is the problem. Lack of globe proof. That means globe is a theory. And I admit it is a good one. But if you can provide actual proof then the discussion is over, however, at least so far, they are not providing conclusive proof. It is a good model. But it remains a model, a theory.

          • David Boffey

            “Yes David, but you forgot that there is no explanation how this can happen from science?’ Oh yes there is, a very basic and simple one.
            “What is the force that is holding every atom in the atmosphere and everything in the atmosphere and pulling it around in exact synchronization with the rotation …”
            The atmosphere is not in exact synchronization with the rotation of anything. That is why we have weather patterns, TRS etc. all resulting basically from temperature gradients and rotation, as anyone with a basic knowledge of physics knows.
            The force you are looking for is called friction, as anyone with a basic knowledge of physics knows.

          • Flat Earth Facts

            Rubbish David. Friction is not a force. Friction does not hold anything. Friction is what happens when two moving things are rubbing together. Like for example when you put the brakes on in your car. There brake pads come in touch with the brake disks and there is friction between the two. That friction generates heat. You have no idea about science or anything and you write all these crazy posts. That is why I delete them.

            You don’t even understand, of course if the earth is actually rotating, which honestly it does not appear to be, then every atom in the atmosphere has to move in exact synchronization with the rotating earth below it. Because as we observe it, everything behaves as if the earth was stationary. Now you have to get your head around the weather patterns, yes, they are moving, but their movements are in relation to the stationary earth. So if the earth is rotating the you have to also rotate the weather patterns with the rotating earth. So yes the wind is blowing in different directions but that whole weather system has to move with the rotation of the earth. And this science can not explain.

            What is the point of saying rubbish things like “friction…” What do you think people will think if you just write rubbish like this?

          • R.S.

            I am not sure why I can’t reply to replies to this question, so In reply at one level higher.
            I read that replies are being deleted. That is a sad thing.
            Friction is force that will tend to reduce the relative speeds and when all relative motion has gone, no more heat is being generated.
            A break works with friction, and so does a clutch. The rotation of the engine’s main axle is gradually transferred to the driving shaft. With a slipping clutch, heat is generated, but when fully engaged, no longer so, although everything keeps rotating.
            Friction will also occur between layers of air in the atmosphere, just as well as between two solid bodies. The strength of this friction, which occurs throughout the gas, depends on the viscosity of the gas.

          • Sarnaduti

            Hi, I think you do not have a sufficient idea of friction that is taught in physics.

            There are two types of friction, static friction and dynamic friction. When you’re talking about friction generating heat you are talking about dynamic friction, which is when two surfaces rub past each other. Static friction is what prevents an object to start moving even if you push or pull it, and there is no heat generated there. But in both cases, friction is definitely a “force” that opposes the movement of the object on which it is acting on. It is unlike other forces because it’s existence depends on the presence of another active force, but it is still a force.

            Suppose there is a box on top of a table and we are trying to move that box. It will not move initially if we give it only a small push/pull (another name for force). So there is an opposing force, equal and opposite to what we are providing, which prevents it from moving. That is static friction. Beyond a certain level of force applied, it starts moving, at which time there is dynamic friction between the two services.

            Now suppose you replace that box by another bigger box which is much more heavier. Now you would require more force to make it start moving. Hence, there is more friction between the box in the table which makes it difficult for us to move it. Hence, friction is proportional to the weight of the object that is being attempted to move.

            Also, when we move the table that holds the box, the box also moves. What causes the box to move, even when there is no direct force applied on the box, but on the table? The force which moves the box is therefore friction between the box and the table that accelerates it when the table is pulled or pushed.

            The same analogy is provided for the globe earth model. Since the atmosphere is pulled by the Earth’s gravity, and it is a massive object, there is large friction. Hence, when the earth rotates, the atmosphere also rotates along with it, just as when you would move the table, the heavy box on top of the table would move along with it.

            I am not saying that this proves that the earth is rotating, and we do not have observations of that and there are other problems to it, but this part of the globe earth model does sound reasonable to me, based on the laws of physics.

      • Flat Earth Frank

        You Forgot to add the speed of the rotation of the Earth. Lol 1,037.5646 miles per hour at the equator. It Changes depending on you are according to globe model. Makes A Huge difference.

        • David Boffey

          LOL, you forgot, lo, that the atmosphere rotates with the Earth, LOL.
          LOL. That is why we have TRS due to coriolis and similarly all weather patterns

          • Flat Earth Facts

            Yes David, but you forgot that there is no explanation how this can happen from science? What is the force that is holding every atom in the atmosphere and everything in the atmosphere and pulling it around in exact synchronization with the rotation of the earth as if the whole thing was one connected frame of reference. The atoms, the air, the butterflies, the birds, the airplanes, they are all locked and being moved in exact synchronization with the rotation of the earth? But how is this possible David? They are not physically connected and they have the freedom to move in their own independent directions. But at the same time they are all being pulled around in exact synchronization with the rotation of the earth?

            Science has never explained how this is working. They have not provided us with any force capable of doing this?

            On the face of it there is no way the rotating earth can pull the whole atmosphere and everything in it around in exact synchronization with its rotation?

            If you know how this is happening please explain it?

    • TJ

      Here you go…
      “Since the Earth is, as we’re TOLD, a Sphere 25,000 miles in circumference… radius 3959 miles, then Pilots traveling for 1 Hour @ a typical cruising speed of 500 mph — to simply MAINTAIN ALTITUDE, would constantly have to adjust their altitude downwards, (to Compensate for the Curvature) and descend on AVERAGE 2,789 Feet EVERY MINUTE !!”
      http://www.waterslevel.com

      • Flat Earth Facts

        NO. Because pilots, and these days auto pilots, fly with an altimeter. Which means they aim at the horizon, which means they are automatically constantly adjusting their angle to point towards the horizon, which will automatically cause them to follow the curve of the earth.

        • David Boffey

          “Rubbish David. Friction is not a force.” Really?
          Aircraft builders and F1 aerodynamicists disagree with you.
          https://www.masterclass.com/articles/what-is-atmospheric-drag
          “Friction does not hold anything. ” I donlt say it did. Read my comment
          “You have no idea about science or anything and you write all these crazy posts.” See above.
          “That is why I delete them.” No it isn’t, you allow crazy posts that you can mock. As you tried here. And failed.

          • Flat Earth Facts

            OK David, I give you this point, there is a reasonable explanation based on friction as to how the heavy atmosphere could be spun around the earth because it sticks to the spinning earth.

            So that would give you air spinning around with the rotation of the earth. A wind of 1000 mph at the equator going down to zero at the poles.

            So not that you are actually synchronized with the rotation of the earth, you are blowing in the wind.

            So yes, I guess it is possible, spinning earth with spinning atmosphere stuck to it with everything in the atmosphere being blown around by the wind.

            It does sound somewhat unlikely, but yes. It is a good idea.

          • Flat Earth Facts

            OK, so this crazy idea of science to explain that whole atmosphere and everything in it moves with the earth because of friction.

            This is a crazy idea. Because it holds that everything in the atmosphere is being tightly held by friction strong enough to pull everything around with the rotation of the earth while every particle and atom in the atmosphere remains free to effortlessly move in any direction it may desire or may be propelled in by the weather patterns, etc.

            So this friction can not simultaneously act and not act on the same particles, objects, atoms, etc, in the atmosphere and at the same time leave everything in the atmosphere to move freely.

            The example to describe this effect is ants walking on a potter’s wheel. Wheel is the spinning field of reference and is moving the ants around. At the same time the ants are free to walk around on the potters wheel. But for this to work there has to be something separate, like the potters wheel, that is physically connected to the earth, and that physical connected thing is rotating with the earth and the atoms, the particles, the weather systems, etc, they are all standing on this spinning thing, and they are able to move independently on this spinning thing.

            You can’t have everything spinning by friction, you only have the thing that everything is standing on locked to the earth and spinning because everything else has to be able to move freely in relation to this spinning thing. Because the ants are connected to the spinning potters wheel they are spinning and that spinning is irrelevant to them and they can go about their business moving around the spinning potters wheel. The ants are not locked to the potters wheel. They are standing on it and have freedom to move on it. But because potters wheel is spinning they are spinning with it, but still they have their freedom of movement on the spinning frame of reference.

            You can’t have everything solidly locked to and moving in exact synchronization with the earth, and at the same time have these exact same particles, atoms and objects absolutely free to move in any direct they choose.

            If all these objects are tightly locked to the rotation of the earth they can not simultaneously have free and effortless movement in any direction they desire.

            They have not thought this one through. This is another example of “Science is stupid…”

          • R.S.

            In response to Flat Earth Fact’s second response, I think there are three forces acting on air particles relevant here: gravity, forces due to pressure gradients and friction.
            Forces, however, do cause acceleration, not necessarily forcing trajectories to be tightened.
            A this moment, the atmosphere has attained angular momentum, consistent with the angular speed of the earth and friction is marginal. There is no energy required to keep it going with the earth. In stead, it would require energy to stop it doing so.

          • Flat Earth Facts

            You have not understood the problem. The particles are not just spinning with the earth, they are parts of weather systems who have their own completely different movements. Winds blowing in all sorts of different directions. So you can not have the same particle spinning in exact synchronization with the earth and being part of a storm system going in a completely different direction. There are so many forces acting so you can not say that there is no energy required to keep it spinning with the earth. Try it. Put some water on a tennis ball and spin it with your drill. Just see the water stick to and spin with the earth. No there is centrifugal force, you forget. Everything tends to go in a straight line, if it was going in a straight line then you could say, like Einstein did, that unless something is stopping it a thing will just keep on going at the same speed. But that will only work in a straight line.

            Problem is the whole atmosphere and everything in it must move in EXACT synchronization with the rotation of the earth. It must be part of the same contiguous connected frame of reference spinning exactly like the earth. And at the same time you have to allow every particle and everything in the atmosphere complete freedom of movement within that spinning frame of reference.

            So it can not be friction. Friction can not seamlessly connect the earth, the air, the particles, the birds, the airplanes into one contiguous spinning frame of reference and at the same time allow complete freedom of movement.

            So this is not friction. You need two separate things. You need a spinning frame of reference which everything is connected to, like the potter’s wheel, and you need everything to be able to move freely on that spinning frame of reference.

            So this remains a mystery. First you have to understand the problem. You need to physically connect the spinning earth to everything, and then allow everything to move independently on this frame of reference physically connected to the spin of the earth.

            Alternatively you can simply accept the earth as stationary, in that case everything works perfectly as we observe it. Everything behaves as if the earth was stationary. So that is also another possibility.

        • TJ

          You need to talk to a professional pilot. An altimeter calculates air pressure. The gyro keeps the plane flying perfectly level. Level as in not following a ball/ sphere, a spheriod, an oblate sphere or ellipsoid

          • Flat Earth Facts

            Level is following the ground below. Even a globe of 10,000 miles diameter, it is very close to level. So these are all silly points from the flat earth side. Point is they are flying the plane and keeping it at a certain altitude, height from the ground. How they measure it, it is irrelevant. But by keeping the plane at a fixed altitude it is going to follow the shape of the ground below it, so this is not a proof the earth is flat or a globe. Either case the pilot will fly at a certain hight, automatically following the shape below.

      • Tim Andrews

        “to simply MAINTAIN ALTITUDE, would constantly have to adjust their altitude downwards”

        No, to MAITNAIN altitude, a pilot has to constantly control their aircraft to keep the altitude (distance between the plane and the ground) the same.

        If a pilot adjusted their altitude downwards, they would be DESCENDING, and getting closer to the ground, not MAINTAINing altitude.

        • Flat Earth Facts

          Yes, of course you are correct Tim. They are adjusting for altitude so that will automatically cause them to follow the curve if it is a globe. This is one of the many invalid flat earth arguments.

    • Douglas

      whichever course a pilot sets is called a “great circle” which if stayed on will bring them back to the same point.
      if a pilot tries to follow a line of latitude a course correction would be required.
      a flight from any two points on the globe can always be great circles, not necessarily be lines of latitude unless it happens to be the equator.

    • madhudvisa

      Pilots aim at the horizon, so by doing this, if the earth is curved, they are automatically adjusting for the curve, similarly computers they use the gyroscope and the altimeter, to keep the plane at a fixed height above the earth, which will automatically adjust for the curve if there is one.

        • TJ

          Lee, obviously the above globe believers have not spoken to a pilot that uses these instruments every day. A gyro is exactly what you described. An altimeter measures air pressure to measure height above sea level. To say either of these instruments aims at the horizon and adjusts for or they are computer calculated to adjust for the Earth’s curvature is just rediculousness.

          • Flat Earth Facts

            TJ. Think for a few seconds. If the altimeter measures the height above sea level and the pilot uses the altimeter to remain at a certain height above sea level then he is automatically adjusting for the curve of the earth. He is adjusting to keep the plane at 30,000 feet, for example, then as the earth curves below him he adjusts to remain 30,000 feet above it automatically following the curve of the earth, if it is curved, or, if it is flat, remaining 30,000 feet above it.

  2. Douglas Nelson

    pilots fly great circles which lines of longitude are not concentric like the lines of latitude. the roads across the prairies do indeed require correction periodically

  3. Leroy Turknett

    Tesla said that gravity does not exist and I believe him. So If I am standing facing the rising sun and I jump towards the sun, Why can’t I jump further towards the sun than I could away from the sun

    • Derek Jacobs

      You are weighed down by a “blanket” of particles above your head. While it is easy to jump and break through some of those particles (like diving into water), it takes great force to go up or down further. Blanket Theory.

  4. Earth Globe

    Gravity is a thing…
    Centuries of scientists and researchers developing and proving the theory of gravity yet in the 21st century, people think all this hard evidence is false. 21st century, I’m gonna lose it with flat-ass earthers and people who think they’re suddenly Icarus and can jump towards the sun.

    • DocMatheny

      Define gravity! Oh, that’s right, it’s used to describe everything that can’t be explained on the imaginary spinning waterball. Magnetism, buoyancy and density account for the things that imaginary gravity make claim to.

    • TJ

      Scientists cannot explain gravity, it is a natural law that consists of density and buoyancy. Since when did any type of scientist prove that it’s a force pulling objects to a center of a ball by a molten magnetic core? That’s utter lunacy just like the ball… Navy gunners can sight targets with lasers from 100 miles away and there are hundreds of photos of Chicago from the shoreline and bottom of the buildings up from 50+- 60+ miles away. I’d like to know how a baller like yourself explains these phenomena?

    • TJ

      I don’t know where or how you do your research but I can tell you that you are absolutely 100% dead wrong… if you google “Is gravity a theory?” This following search results is what you will get:
      Universal Gravity is a theory, not a fact, regarding the natural law of attraction. This material should be approached with an open mind, studied carefully, and critically considered. The Universal Theory of Gravity is often taught in schools as a fact, when in fact it is not even a good theory.
      Gravity: It’s Only a Theory | National Center for Science Education
      I will say I was surprised to have read those results from Google myself since they censor anything related to this subject matter, turn it around and deliberately push disinformation lies about it.
      As it is said in the statement it is a ‘natural law’. Density and buoyancy sort all it out but if you want to keep believing that you’re on a ball and being held down and pulled to it by a force generated from molten magnetic core at the center of it, thats alright. You see real science crushes that ridiculous theory- if a magnet is melted into liquid it will no longer have any magnetic properties and he deepest hole that’s ever been drilled down into the Earth is less than 8 miles. It’s beyond preposterous for any one person, group or cult to have any clue what is over 4000 miles down into the Earth.

      • Rob Ross

        TJ, if you read your google article further, you would have come across this disclaimer on the article:
        [Textbook disclaimers are down, but not out. This satirical look at “only a theory” disclaimers imagines what might happen if advocates applied the same logic to the theory of gravitation that they do to the theory of evolution.]
        So not only do you flat earthers have zero evidence, but zero reading skills as well.

        • Flat Earth Facts

          However the theory of gravitation is only a theory. And not even agreed on by the big names in science. You may know there is Newtonian gravity, and totally different gravity proposed by Einstein. So even the big names in science, they present their competing and incompatible theories of gravitation.

          So no matter what Google may say, the explanations we have of how gravity works are most certainly theories. There is, of course, an observable fact, that is if you drop an item that is more dense than the medium it is in it will fall down.

          So that is a fact. If you let go of an object in a medium that is less dense than the object it will fall down. So gravitation is a theory trying to explain why the more dense object falls down in a less dense medium. It can be noted of course also that if you let go of a less dense object [helium filled balloon for example] in a more dense medium [the atmosphere] it will fall up. However this can not be explained by the theory of gravitation…

          So yes. Gravitation is a theory and Google the article in question is incorrect in assuming it is not.

          • R.S.

            Newton’s law of gravity is the limiting case of Einstein’s model, valid for ‘small’ masses and ‘low’ speeds. In that case, they yield the same results.
            Einstein’s work builds on the work of Newton and extends it to new realms.
            Conceptually, one could say that Newton’s law is simply descriptive and Einstein’s theory provides a deeper understanding.

            A helium filled balloon floating up is totally consistent with gravity.
            The denser surrounding air is pulled on harder per volume by gravity than the balloon and forces it self below the balloon that is thus pushed up by it.
            It is the same proces that forces a football, submerged in water back to the surface.
            You may also compare this to balance scales that depend on gravity. One arm may swing up against gravity, just because it holds a lower weight.

          • Flat Earth Facts

            There is an actual fact, observable fact. And that is that things tend to fall down. And they have measured and discovered they accelerate as they fall down and measured that acceleration. These are actual measurable facts, and if you call this “gravity”. That is of course fine. But when you try to explain how it works, like Newton and Einstein, then these are theories. Trying to explain the actual observed fact of gravity.

            So there is a definitely something that causes things to fall down, so yes, if you create a vacuum then a helium filled balloon will also fall to the ground.

            The theories are the explanations that attempt to explain how it is working actually, what is causing the gravity, etc. But there is that force pulling everything down, no one can deny that.

  5. Rob Ross

    This is all very interesting stuff. Nobody has given scientific proof the earth is flat. NOBODY!
    So for you so called geniuses holding on to this idea, riddle me this.
    “If I leave from my home and walk in a straight line for just over 40,000 km.(I can walk on water and over mountains easily for this scenario)…Where would I end up??

    • Flat Earth Facts

      Yes. You are correct Rob. No one has given any scientific proof the earth is flat. You can say there is no absolute scientific proof the earth is a globe but there is a fully functional, logical and quite reasonable globe earth model that in almost all cases makes very accurate predictions of practically everything we see happening around us. So it is quite reasonable and logical and scientific to accept that the earth is most likely a globe with quite a high degree of confidence.

      However, there is no working flat earth model even, if you ask them how it works they will just say, “We don’t know how it works, we’re not scientists… But we know it is flat…”

      So these are not equal models, globe earth and flat earth…
      But as far as your walking idea, on the generally understood flat earth it depends on the direction you walk. All directions, except south, would result in the same experience you expect on a globe. Even if you walked South on the flat earth you would come to Antartica and it is too extremely cold and desolate, you can not go very far. So Actually no matter what direction you walked on the flat earth you would have the same experience as you would expect to have on the globe earth.

      East and West are circular, as they are on the globe, same thing, and North, you will get to the North Pole in both cases, and South, you will end up at Antartica. However flat earthers believe Antartica is an outer ring, not a pole. But you would not be able to tell the difference as you were walking there.

      • Rob Ross

        My scenario gave parameters: I could walk on water, over mountain, through the cold Antartica was assumed. My point, is I would end up where I started on a globe. But if the earth was flat where would I end up? I bet no flat earther could give a reasonable final destination. If they say a large ice wall, then please provide a picture, and also what is on the other side of that ice wall? I think maybe they’ve watched too much game of thrones.

        • Flat Earth Facts

          Yes Rob, you would end up where you started on a globe. But on our globe you would not get far into Antarctica before you died. So you can’t do this on the Earth. The distances are very great. Even on the Antartica we believe on the globe. There is no fuel there, there is no heat there, the temperature can be down around minus 90 degrees Celsius, so my point stands, you are correct, if you walked on a globe you would eventually come back to your starting point but you have to understand it is not possible to do this on the Earth. So you are presuming the earth is a globe, however you can not test that using the scenario you have given.

          Everyone presumes the earth is a globe, however proving the earth is a globe, that is a different thing.

          • Rob Ross

            As I stated before, I’m my scenario I can withstand the cold. Please explain where I would if I walked in a straight line, any direction for 40,000 km.
            You can’t because you know I would end up where I started.

          • Flat Earth Facts

            Yes. If you were on a globe you would end up where you started. But the point is you can’t do this on the earth, so you can’t test to see if the earth is a globe or not. That is the problem. It is difficult to come up with a practical test you can use, that you can actually carry out, to prove the earth is a globe.

            My point is the results of your test would be identical on the flat earth as proposed by the flat earthers and the globe earth as proposed by the globe earthers. Because in either case, there is now way you can actually withstand the cold. So we have to be realistic.

        • DocMatheny

          It’s the same on both models for East and west. North – South circumnavigation ALONE destroys the magical spinning waterball. There has NEVER been North – South circumnavigation…NEVER!

      • Rob Ross

        “Flat Earth Facts” just stated “quite reasonable and logical and scientific to accept that the earth is most likely a globe with quite a high degree of confidence.”
        I am confused by your moniker then

        • Flat Earth Facts

          Hi Rob

          The purpose of the “Flat Earth Facts” website is to discover the truth about the shape of the earth. So if it is a globe, I have no problem with that, we are just exploring the possibilities.

          Personally I am not convinced it is a globe, I am convinced it is not as the flat earthers present, their map, for example, is obviously completely incorrect.

          Anyhow the current situation is the only logical, scientific and working model we have is the globe earth model. It does have flaws and unexplained grey areas and does depend on the magic of gravity to explain the unexplainable. However it is a good working model. Whereas the flat earth people don’t have a model. If you ask them how it works if the earth is flat, they say they don’t know how it works. If you ask them to draw a map that works if the earth is flat, they can’t draw the map…

          So there is no competition between the flat earth theory and the globe earth theory, globe earth wins for sure, flat earth is not in the running. If you consider it from the point of view of science.

          Because for science you have to have a theory, you have to have a model, and your model can then be tested by comparing the predictions of your model to our actual observations. So the globe earthers have their theory and model and we can use their model to make predictions and compare the predictions of the globe earth model with our actual observations, and for the most part, the observations will match the predictions of the globe earth model.

          However flat earthers, they don’t even have a theory, they all have different ideas, there is no agreed on theory, and without a theory there is no question of a model. So flat earthers they can not present a predictive model, because they don’t understand how it could work if the earth was flat… That is actually a big problem. So flat earth is not science, because they don’t have an agreed on theory and have not been able to construct a valid predictive model based on their theory.

          So flat earth is more like a religion. They have a belief, but they don’t feel they need to have any science or working model to prove their theory. They don’t have to prove their theory because they know the earth is flat, they don’t need a model because they know the earth is flat…

          However, my point, is although the globe earthers have presented a very beautiful theory with quite an accurate predictive scientific model, that is not a guarantee it is correct.

          So what we are really doing here, ultimately, is trying to explore the possibilities of developing another valid scientific predictive model that explains our observations assuming that the earth is not a globe.

          Science has done a good job of explaining how the earth being a spinning globe can explain our observations, we want to explore and see if it is possible to make an equally good theory and predictive scientific model without presuming the earth is a spinning globe.

          I am fairly sure we have no actual proof the earth is a spinning globe. At least no one has ever presented such conclusive proof to me. So really it is possible that we are not on a spinning globe. There are certainly many indications that the earth is stationary for example. There is no indication the earth is spinning. Nothing we can measure will indicates that. There is certainly a rotation happening, in the sky everything is spinning around once in 24 hours. So there are two ways of understanding this. We can presume we are spinning and the rotation is caused by our spinning, or everything could be spinning around the earth. And there is no way really for us to tell one way or the other, from earth, because it would look the same. However if the earth was spinning we should be able to detect that spinning and we can’t…

          • Rob Ross

            Oh my. Ok I get it. I thought flat earthers were being serious here.
            Have fun with all this. I have better things to do than debate a made up theory.
            Earth standing still?? Is this a serious theory?

          • Flat Earth Facts

            Yes. That is the problem with flat earthers. They don’t have a working model. But yes, certainly, stationary earth, that is quite possible.

            All we can tell from earth is that there is a rotation. So that rotation can be explained by the earth rotating. Or, as was presumed by older cultures, the stars and other luminaries were rotating in the sky.

            So both are possible and equally valid explanations for what we observe. Everything scientifically we have presumed about the globe earth would work equally well if we were to propose a stationary earth in the center of a rotating field of stars, moon, planets, etc.

            And there are indications certainly that the earth is stationary. We can’t detect the movement of the earth, which we should be able to do if it was moving.

            So these are two equally valid presumptions. It is only that current science has presumed a moving rotating globe, and we have become accustomed to that concept, but a stationary earth surrounded by a moving field of luminaries is an equally valid scientific proposition.

    • TJ

      Rob and FEF- you will never see ‘scientific proof’ the earth is flat via universities or the mainstream, ever. The controllers of the world who run the governments will do anything to cover it up. The last time evidence through mainstream science even showed the earth is stationary and immovable was though four scientific experiments from the late 1800s to the early 1900s. These experiments are not allowed or taught in any universities. Aether physics has never been allowed to be studied ever since.
      With today’s optics like with superzoom high-def cameras, we can in fact see too far. How is it that someone can take a direct line of sight photo from Lake Michigan all the way across to Chicago and photograph the city from the shoreline, the bottom of the buildings up from 62 miles away? It’s not a mirage and it’s been done many times. This would be impossible on a globe because there’d be 2,400 feet of curvature blocking it. Real science tells us that the level of water does not bend, especially around a 25,000 mile ball. It is a law violation in the fluid dynamics.
      Have a look at JTolan Media 1’s work, is professional engineer and photographer and has done some amazing work and none of it is fabricated.
      https://youtube.com/channel/UCqjHW3sIVWspvEw9yRW_Hcw
      There are proofs and evidence all around us. If we truly lived on a globe every single human being once they were old enough to even identify with their senses would demonstrably know it. No one would be brainwashed into believing it and we wouldn’t be on here debating it.
      Also take the time with an open mind and common sense to see many laid out proofs.
      https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-Ax_YpQsy88
      Of course there is and will probably always be disinformation and propaganda going against these fruits but that’s where your common sense comes in.
      We who know the truth we’re just like you before.
      Once you see it, you can’t unsee it.

  6. TJ

    No to the contrary, you’ve got it quite wrong- look again… Science can’t explain gravity, it is density and buoyancy. It is not a force pulling you to a molten, magnetic core at the center of ball earth, so I’d let go of the fairy tale.
    https://waterslevel.com/

    • ON THE LEVEL

      “Science can’t explain gravity, it is density and buoyancy. It is not a force pulling you to a molten, magnetic core at the center of ball earth, so I’d let go of the fairy tale.”

      The ball Earth molten core is fiction. Density and buoyancy explains observed phenomenon, but you left something out.
      Denser objects sink and lighter objects rise in fluids ( liquid or gas ). That’s objective observational evidence of directional change. Moreover, by the first law of motion ( Aristotelian ) any object in motion must be set in motion by another and the stronger moves the weaker.

      A force is required to arrange the observations noted above. You are correct to doubt Newtonian/Einsteinian explanations ( I do and so even did Newton ) but it doesn’t mean force(s) are not involved. Nikola Tesla and others have their own explanations. There exists evidence ethereal/em forces play the dominant role here. There exists experiments indicating that rotating objects experience reduced inertial mass.
      Including, rotating magnets appearing to reduce mass.

      The Earth is fascinating, I recommend no one allow theories and conjectures to beguile their minds. Observe seek to understand and arrive at your own conclusions.

      Thanks TJ

  7. TJ

    No ‘scientist’ has but what scientists have proven with the Michelson-Morley, the Michelson-Gale, the Sagnac and Airy’s Failure is that the Earth is stationary and does not move. Mainstream scientism tried to throw Einstein’s theory of relativity at the Michelson-Morley experiment trying to explain away the fact that there was no ether was due to the theory of relativity everything is relative. Btw, 100 renowned scientists had shredded Einstein’s theories to pieces. He didn’t discover E=mc2 in the Sagnac experiment debunked the Einstein theory.
    Now as I’ve said in a previous comment… Navy gunners can sight targets with lasers from 100 miles away and there are hundreds of photos of Chicago from the shoreline and bottom of the buildings up from 50+- 60+ miles away. I’d like to know how a baller like yourself explains these phenomena? These tests, experiments and observations have been done all over the world. If its we can see way beyond the purported formula for the curvature of the Earth which doesn’t exist then you don’t need a lab coat to prove it.

  8. Omi

    for those who said that flatearthers dont have a model or can draw their model map!!! i actually stop here if this is the idea that you guys have and I feel sorry for your knowledge as I felt you were trying to be smart and mock flat earthers.

    • Flat Earth Facts

      But it’s true Omi, Flat earther’s don’t have an agreed model, every flat earther has different ideas and none of them work, in the sense that none of the flat earth ideas are consistent with our actual observations. And flat earthers are unable to draw a map on a flat plane that works, or that is consistient with our actual experiences traveling around the “Globe”.

      • TJ

        Your ignorance precedes you, you speak without any knowledge backing it up. The Azimuthal Equidistant New Standard Map of The World from 1892 has proven to be far more accurate than any nonsensical globe. If you give me your email address I will send you a PDF book called 16 Emergency Landings Proving Flat Earth. The book cannot be debunked in any way and off lights of course have been confirmed. It also has information from the USGS.

        • Flat Earth Facts

          Yes. I have read about the strange emergency landings. Problem is I have personally proven that map is incorrect by flying from Auckland to Buenos Ares in less than 12 hours. Look at your map, it is not possible on your map, but it is what we would expect on the globe.

          Also if it was as you claim it to be the sun never goes south of the Tropic of Capricorn, so if I was down at the southern most tip of South America, on your flat earth, the sun must remain in the northern part of the sky. It can not appear in the south. But you can check my video showing the sun doing a 360 degree circle around me at the southern most tip of South America. At that point it does go below the horizon in the south for a few hours, but you can see sun is in the south. Not possible on your flat earth map.

          So I do not eliminate the possibility of the earth being flat. Maybe, but currently flat earth people, they can not produce a model that predicts our actual observations and experiences navigating the earth and what we see in the sky.

          So that would be required for thoughtful people to consider the possibility. Thoughtful people, you can tell them “the earth is flat,” they will ask you to explain how the earth could be flat. Flat earthers will just say “I don’t know how, I just know it’s flat…”

          So this is the problem….

          No working flat earth model…

  9. DocMatheny

    So which one of the over 300 maps of the magical spinning cartoon waterball do you subscribe to? I have a question I asked Dr. Danny Faulkner during an exchange, “At what height does atmosphere change to a vacuum?” So I’m asking you that same question.

    • Flat Earth Facts

      No flat map can represent a globe. They are all projections and all inaccurate. And everyone knows that.

      However, if the earth is a globe, the continents should be, and presumably are, correctly represented, in terms of their relative size and distances from each other.

      So all flat maps are incorrect, in the sense they are all projections of a globe onto a flat plane. But the globe itself, that is the only way you can accurately depict the earth, with correctly proportioned continents and relative distances.

      So the globes should be correct and all the flat maps are just projections of a globe and are all distorted.

      • ON THE LEVEL

        Flat Earth maps pre-date globes and therefore cannot simply be projections of globes. Many maps prior to the 1540’s when globes started to appear show the continents appearing much the way we claim them to appear now. Most flat maps today have errors because the relative size and apparent import of land masses are inflated / deflated or mutated for political and ideological reasons not because of errors arising from the supposed practice of projecting curved land masses on to a flat surface.

        You’ve made this dubious claim several times and cannot prove it.

        • Flat Earth Facts

          This is not a claim, this is a fact. All the flat maps, at least which we use today, including your flat earth map, are projections of a globe on a flat piece of paper. So by definition, if the earth is a globe, it is impossible to accurately represent the shapes and relative distances of the continents on a flat plane. So everyone knows all flat maps are distorted to present the globe on a flat plane. This is not because of political or ideological reasons, although maybe some country may prefer a projection that makes their country look bigger and others smaller, but the real reason is it is impossible to accurately depict the continents on a globe on a flat piece of paper.

          So my challenge to you would be to prove that the representation of the continents on the globe is incorrect, that in reality the continents are different from how they are represented on a globe.

          Because the reverse is true also, if the earth were a flat plane it would not be possible to accurately represent the sizes and relative distances of the continents on a globe.

          • TJ

            Give me your email address and I will send you ’16 Emergency Landings Proving Flat Earth’. This will shatter all of the research you just laid out. You will also see that nothing in that book can be debunked. Copernicus moved the Earth from the centre of the universe to being one of a number of planets revolving around the Sun. This model wasn’t accepted until 1543. The fact is, science can disprove too many things based this model today.

          • Flat Earth Facts

            Yes. I have seen it. And yes, earth in the center or sun in the center, it is a matter of religion. Current scientists are sun worshippers, so they put sun in the center, it is their religion, that’s all. It is equally valid to have the earth in the center and stationary.

          • ON THE LEVEL

            CORRECTION:

            Previously, I wrote:

            “Globe makers depict the continental land masses on flat paper then wrap them around a ball or hemisphere to render a globe, precisely the opposite of what you claim.”

            This is only true in part. As the video I provided showed, globe makers do indeed render their depiction of the Earth’s continents on a flat paper surface & then wrap said paper around a hemisphere & in total a globe. However, while continents and areas in the polar regions appear on the globe without noticeable alteration from the flat surface original the equatorial regions have excess paper removed to force a fit ( you are correct a globe is not a plane ).
            Note the paper removed contains no Earth surface rendering it’s left blank by design. However, the continents and land masses themselves are not adjusted at all from the flat surfaced original paper now wrapped around a globe!

            Since you present yourself as one who claims to know the globe model so well, please tell me if as you say the land masses on globes based on the globe model are all depicted accurately how is it possible the land masses can be accurately rendered directly on a flat surface and then pasted on a globe? You claimed this could not be done. In addition, how can the distances between many polar land masses remain as rendered on a flat surface?

            Globes are not as accurate as you think and their source material are Flat Maps!!!

            Further, you may or may not be aware that many globes depict the massive ocean bottoms in topographical relief. The Nazi’s first did this and deluded many into believing they explored and supposedly carried out sonar analysis of these entire ocean bottom regions! In fact, the ocean floor has not been imaged and analyzed to anything remotely like depicted and remains to science a mystery!

            Would like to know your thoughts and have a great weekend!

          • Flat Earth Facts

            On the Level, of course… You can only print on flat sheets. So if you want to make a globe, you can’t print on the globe. So you have to print it on paper and stick it on the globe. But as you say, it is done in sections, and the sections fit together and cover the globe. Please check this website:

            https://www.brighthubeducation.com/help-with-geography/123525-how-to-make-make-a-homemade-globe-for-a-project/

            You will see how you can print a globe on flat paper and turn it into an actual globe.

            As you say, it is done in sections and there are missing bits and you have to fold it together to make the globe.

            So check out the page and you will see how it is done. The way it is done is continents are not correct when printed on the flat paper but become correct when wrapped around the globe.

    • On The Level

      NASA doesn’t know. They last claimed the moon was within Earth’s atmosphere and said moon was ~237,000 miles away. Of course they can claim just about anything and large numbers will accept it. Ask Dr. Danny Faulkner if he has personal experience observing whatever altitude he claims the supposed vacuum of space starts or did he acquire his proffered answer from someone else.

  10. Jim Rish

    The flat Earth Facts guy got it right, on the “spinning” atmosphere portion of this. Correct! To make your spindaball cosmology have ANY credence whatsoever, the ENTIRE atmosphere, starting at the surface of your so-called lithosphere, would have to rotate in EXACT unison, at whatever altitude you fly, is your spindaball cosmology actually held any water, pun intended. Air and gasses have weight. And in this case, incredible weight. Sorry. Your explanation even remotely using friction, of all things, ain’t gonna it.

    • R.S.

      What is your requirement for ‘exact unison’ based upon?
      Clearly, the atmosphere is not rotating in exact unison with the earth, because we observe winds, even close to the surface of the earth.
      There are all of these atmospheric phenomena, like trade winds, jet streams and anti cyclones. The latter rotating anti clockwise north of the equator and clockwise south of the equator.
      But they all are consistent with a rotating sphere and air circulation caused by temperature differences and the Coriolis effect.

      • Flat Earth Facts

        Hi R.S. Yes. That is the point. Everything in the atmosphere is moving in different directions. Even the weather patterns, as you note, they are moving in all sorts of different directions, the airplanes, they are flying in different directions, the birds, they are all flying in different directions, but everything is moving in relation to the earth below.

        Everything is moving as if the earth was stationary below.

        So if the earth is rotating then to produce this effect everything in the sky including those moving weather systems has to be held and pulled around with the rotation of the earth.

        That is the mystery force that science has not been able to explain to us.

        Every particle of the atmosphere has to be locked with and synchronized with the rotation of the earth, pulled around as the earth rotates, but at the same time that particle has to have complete freedom to move as the part of the storm system it is, etc., in a completely different direction.

        So if you have got a hurricane, for example. It is rotating above a certain location on the earth, and it is moving in certain path, not at all related with the rotation of the earth. And that whole hurricane system has to be held in place and pulled around by the rotation of the earth.

        There are two frames of reference here. There is the rotating frame of reference that everything in the atmosphere is locked to and being pulled around by, by some mysterious unknown force, and then there are all the movements we see in relation to the apparently stationary surface of the earth.

        I know it is difficult to grasp because no one else actually has ever tried to explain this, because science has no answer to how it could happen. If you try and discuss it with actual scientists who have enough brain cells to see the problem they will just try and distract you, because they have no answer to this.

        Things actually behave as if the earth is stationary. There is no way at the moment we can explain how the atmosphere and everything in it is being pulled around with the rotation of the earth and at the same time allow completely free movement of everything in the atmosphere in relation to the apparently stationary surface of the earth.

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